wanting spektrum tx file or bidule 170

[horsefeetky]

anyone have a proven setup for the bidule 170 on spektrum tx. im wanting a solid starting point for my first tow plane and im thinking some of you flyers have already been through this nad may have a spektrum file to share with all the proper mixes and flight conditions arranged i can follow for my new bidule build..
ishu4u2@gmail.com
thanks in advance to any who can help
joe in ky

[Stew2]

Joe,

The transmitter program for the Bidule will quickly become a function of what receiver you are using. There are a few "extra" servos with the Bidule having split elevators and twin rudders. I fly my Bidule 170(180) on a DX18 and will be more than happy to send you my program, but I use a Competition model Powerbox with mine which allows me to not have to use any x-plus channels in the set-up, so it may not be of great help. The good news is that for mixing, there is very little and it is very simple. The manual supplied with the Bidule describes the flap - elevator mix and that is what I use. It works great. It removes all pitch changes from flap deployment. Some people prefer more nose down attitude when flaps are deployed and will increase the amount of down elevator mix. The only other mix is for the nose wheel steering. It is simply slaved off the rudder channel so I can work the servo throw independently. I have a ton of throw in my nose gear so I can pivot on a single main gear wheel when taxiing.

I have a DX18 and a DX20, and would be more than happy to write you a program for either. What receiver are you using?

The only other thing about programming for the Bidule, is that the airplane really likes to be balanced exactly level at the CG point they recommend of 190mm. This will show up in the flap-elevator mix, especially if you balance it at all nose down. All surface throws are set per the manual as well.

Let me know if I can help and I will try my best.

Scot

[horsefeetky]

sounds like good info i think i can handle it. im using a power safe 12ch telemetry rx.

with the 150da and 3 blade carbon prop and std mufflers i was not sure it would balance easily so when i resheeted the fuse bottom from end of straight sides to tail i allowed the last 6 inches to have a screw on hatch cover to access the rear section if needed for weight..........i crossed braced fuse sides along the way inside too. no more flex. i have the proper servo saver gathered and 6-32 hardware for controls. things should come together over the next 30 days pretty fast.

can you describe the flap use for towing so once i maiden it i can begin to get the feel for how it should climb out in use. do you use a mid flap setting to tow and if so is there a 3 pos switch in use for flight modes to control the nose up attitude for small to giant size gliders being towed up.

also for return to land do you use full flaps in the dive back to landing from release height.

lots of unanswered questions but im sure with the guidance from those her like you i will get things sorted well prior to july tow at cumberland. i do have my blanik i got from kevin to practice with.

thanks
joe

[Stew2]

I only use flaps on tow when I am towing very small or fragile gliders where I have to keep the airspeed very slow. Examples are the multiplex easy glider and the foam e-flite KA-8, which I tow almost vertically. Others like the Aviation Concepts 1/4 scale 2-33 I will tow at half flap and not much above half throttle. Everything else is no flap and adjust mostly with rate of climb and throttle. I do use a 3 position switch for flaps, but no flight modes. Towing isn’t that technical for aircraft configuration, it is more about flying with rudder. The nose up attitude will increase the P-factor and require input. Turns are to be big and gentile meaning they are all in the left hand. Very little if any aileron is used while a glider is on tow. After their release, cut the throttle, roll over and dive back toward the runway. I do not use flaps during the dive for fear of over speeding them. I typically add half flap when I am on the down wind leg of my approach. Full flap on final. The Bidule really lessens the load on the tow pilot and is very well behaved. The best way to transition into towing to start with an airplane that feels like you favorite old pair of shoes. Towing is maintaining a constant climb rate with big gentile turns. After release it is a straight line back to the field directly into the pattern, if it is open, and land.

[lenb]

Hi Joe,

Like Scot mentions the setup for the Bidule is sorta unique to the system used. A straight powersafe receiver setup is pretty simple though /
Throttle
Choke ( if used)
rudder
rudder
elevator
elevator
aileron
aileron
flap
flap
tow release
brakes ( if used)
ignition kill ( must use)

This would use 13 channels.

Choices are no brakes, or no choke, or use a channel expander if you choose all of them. If your running a DX 18 or 20 you can go with a 20 channel receiver.

The flying with the Bidule is completely straight forward.
Typically never flaps on tow unless pulling a small 7lb or less sailplane. The Bidule has rediculous slow speed characteristics, is a baby. You can take off at 1/3 throttle and never feel any bad tendencies.
Landing is a function off power off after release and glide down to pattern altitude, drop in full flaps and land. Most of the time you will be adding a slight amount of power on short final.

Having over 400 hours on the Bidules, I can attest, as the others will agree, its a wonderful airplane.

GOOD LUCK

LEN

[JimD]

Hi Joe,

Len and Scot have both offered sage advice and I agree with what they have said...you will need to answer some of these questions:

#1 How do you hold your transmitter...Do you fly "pinch" or "thumbs"?

#2 Do you like flaps on 3-position switch or a proportional knob or slider?

#3 Where do you want to locate the tow release?

#4 Do you want to have a servo controlled choke?

#5 Do you want to have a transmitter operated kill switch?

#6 Do you plan to have brakes?

The answers will determine some of the programming...which switch or slider will you want to use for each of these.

Personally, I like to start with a clean slate fresh program (even if I am setting up a duplicate model).

Things like roll rate and elevator sensitivity are very individual preferences. Keep in mind that what I like, you may not like.

For example, my Bidule 170 has a slower roll rate than what I would use on most other models. As Scot mentioned, the rudder is primary on tow and turns need to be kept relatively flat. NO BANK AND YANK TURNS!!! Therefore, a slower roll rate suits my style.

As for elevator, I like a sensitive feel and use little or no exponential. I do not use dual or triple rates and any controls.

[horsefeetky]

thanks guys.. im familiar with the dx18 from jets and may others so i guess what im needing to know is are there std glider tow pilot places for each switch used all are comfortable with should another flyer fly my plane or vise a versa.....

i usually do have 3 pos flaps on switch right above the throttle
then i alwasy setup 3 pos rates with expo in them more expo with higher rates. i use the switch top front left or 11 o'clock over the throttle
i do this so i can fly with high rates and touchy feeling and should another flyer want to take a turn on it i go lower rates so as no surprises to them
i do motor kill front top far left corner
choke i have not dealt with yet so maybe oposite switch from kill being top far right switch.
no brakes on mine for right now if needed i will use electric ones from jet planes fit to the giant wheel of the bidule and mixed to down elevator brake on..
will put tow release on top left rear as this is where my blanik release is located. will be easy to remember in a pinch

im waiting on more bracing to setup and then im ready to make the plate for the steering saver and servo to mount on.

[Stew2]

The switch line-up that I use is very similar to what you are describing. Tow release on switch A, Flaps on switch D, Choke on switch E, and Ignition kill on switch H. Switch E is a 3-position switch, so I have no choke,half choke and full choke as the positions. Flaps are typical, flaps up, half flap, full flap. Though it has been attempted to hover a Bidule, it is no where near a 3-D airplane, so I don't even have dual rates set up on any surface. I simply found the rate I liked best for ailerons and elevator and leave them at that. Rudder throw is set at max. The Bidule will fly very easily at the manual throws and you can adjust to personal preference from there. For me, towing is all about lessening the pilot workload as much as possible, so I go for the most basic setup requiring the least amount of switch movements. It may sound boring, but a minimal tow session is 45 minutes, and there have been events where you're the only tow pilot there, so nothing more than gas and battery changes for rest. Those result in literally hours of flying time in a day. If we don't tow, they don't go and as the guys will say here, this is not an aerotalk, it is an aerotow. So, for the endurance sessions, I just want to steer the airplane around in the air and get the next guy in line up. I love the brakes on my Bidule. I hate the brake maintenance, but it sure helps in keeping the airplane put when the glider guys are hooking up. With the ZDZ-180 on the nose I can hold the airplane with a few hundred extra RPM at idle to lessen the airframe vibration and shaking. They spoil me. They also save my long landings from a crappy approach from having to taxi back and haul the line around, Saving time to be used on towing the next guy up instead of me driving my airplane around on the ground. I use switch G for brakes, with no brakes, half brakes, throw out the anchor brakes.....

[lenb]

My switch setup is identical to Scots ( above) except the brake lever is on the right slider.
Most tow pilots tend to have the tow release on the gear switch, and kill on the right rear. It's a personal choice, but standardizing helps when others are asking for help or a tug is shared.
Brakes? they rule... we can launch sailplanes to 1500 ft every 2 1/2 min. its a fast cycle time without having to taxi back, As Scot says, typical tow session is 45min to an hour, as you saw in Cumberland, we launch a lot of sailplanes.

[horsefeetky]

thanks guys and i may try to install electric brakes on it after all........shouldnt be too much trouble and much less weight than hydro brakes with few parts involved.. let me see what i can come up with i have some spare sets in the shop to tinker with.

[Stew2]

I will be very interested in learning what you come up with for brakes. Are there 50+ pound jets that have brakes? There is a lot of mass and inertia in a 50 pound airplane and the biggest reason for the brake maintenance is pad wear, which is directly related to stopping 50 pounds from a landing at, I don't know, 12-18 MPH? Never had anybody measure landing speeds.... If you figure something out for brakes, would love to see pictures!!

[RickS]

Stall speed on 1/3 scale GPS racers is typically 30-35 kph when flying without ballast. 18 - 21 mph.

[horsefeetky]

yes my 2.5m jets are 30 plus pounds landing at 30-40mph and using brakes until stopped on blacktop.. and many jets at over 40 pounds most going with electric brakes now and no more older air brakes in my future.

they use magnetic power to stop things and yes there is wear but not like a disc to caliper has. and the weight is minimal

[Steve P]

I've been looking for these, but not finding anything in the 150-200mm size (6-8") that would take a tire that can operate on rough grass fields?

[Stew2]

Those brake details sound really good. Any links to products? Sounds really promising. Looking forward to learning more. Thanks!!

[horsefeetky]

they will have to be retro fitted to the larger wheel.

they work simple though just a metal disc foating on 2 pins from the main wheel hub that come over the the induced drag of the magnet when current applied and the magnet is fixed to the gear strut..

google jp brakes they have ones i can gut and make use of. larger diameter doesnt mean more power to stop as the current force is the same. i have a 65mm tire set here to play with.