Transmitter Configuration for a Scale Motor Glider - H9 ASH 31

[Stew2]

SHORT VERSION:

How are you guys going to configure your transmitter for an aerotowable motor glider?



LONG VERSION:

With the Hangar 9 ASH 31's shipping now, it is spawning thoughts of just how do I want to configure the transmitter for a scale motor glider?

Some of this will be thinking out loud and all of it will be a function of personal choice, but I thought I would open this thread so we can all throw ideas in the brain pot and see what kind of soup we can make.

OK, Hangar 9 ASH-31, a cool airframe, with the following radio gear:

1 Rudder servo
1 Elevator servo
2 Aileron servos
2 Flap servos
2 Electric Spoilers
1 Electric Retract

I think everyone is going to have those, but then come the options:

1) Aerotow Sailplane only - 1 tow release servo
2) Motor Glider only - 1 Electronic Speed Control
3) Combination Tow Ready Motor Glider - 1 tow release servo AND 1 ESC

My desire for this airframe is to have an airplane I can take off with the electric motor when there is no tow pilot available, AND be able to Aerotow. There a few H9 ASW-20's that show up at our aerotows that are set up like that, but I have never discussed with those pilots how they configure their transmitters for the different modes.

So the fundamental flight controls are easy, aileron, elevator, rudder on the sticks. But then comes the discussion point, Spoilers, Motor Control and Flaps. So I started thinking, typically not much happens then, but this time I twitched with some immediate questions and fears!!:

1) All my other Gliders are set up to have flaps mixed with spoilers and all on the spoiler stick. Will that be the same for this glider?
2) How do I want to control motor speed, variable via stick or slider or binary of on/off via a switch?
3) I'm pretty sure I want to be able to lock out motor capability while on tow....gonna piss off the guys if I cut the tow line with my prop accidentally, but really I bet my motor and nose of the glider would get the worst end of that scenario, but in any case, let's try to lock out motor control while on tow....
4) I want to keep as many switches as possible the same from what I am flying now.
5) I want to avoid complicated switch configurations to get the motor on when I want it and off when I don't want it and not have to think super hard as to what configuration my switches are in to get things to work, i.e. I would like for the airplane to do what I am in a panic to do and not get thrown into a frozen brain mode while the glider is careening off out of control!
6) Is variable throttle control a big deal for ROG? Not sure I want the throttle either 100% or 0% when trying to ROG...? If throttle control is to be variable, it has to be easy and natural so I can still use the other controls, like that damn rudder thing!
7) Flaperon or not?

A lot of this goes along with what gets mentioned in the manual for suggestions on flaperon, camber control and landing configuration. Reading that is an exercise left to the student.

So I'll start with "My Standard" transmitter configuration for my gliders:

I use a DX-20 for my gliders, but I think transmitters are pretty similar between manufacturers with number of switches and general locations. At least they all have 2 sticks....

My Transmitter Configuration:

Right Stick - Elevator & Aileron
Left Stick - Rudder & Spoiler
Top Right Back Switch (switch H) - Gear Retract
Top Left Back Switch (switch A) - Tow Release
Top Left Front Switch (switch B) - Primary Flight Modes (Launch, Land)
Front Left Inside Switch (switch D) - Secondary Flight Modes (Cruise, Speed, Thermal)

All remaining switches, sliders, knobs, boobs and buttons I leave functionless, so I have a few more switches to create total confusion and chaos with!!

Alright, programming. I have always approached programming from the point of view of, let's not worry about what the programming will allow, let's worry about what we want the functionality to be and then see if we can make the programming do that for us. Every time I try to think about both at the same time, my brain begins to smoke and I typically screw both sides of the problem up!!

So, that is where I am, what are other's thoughts on how they want things to work?? Remember, I would like to approach this discussion from the point of view of what do we want the transmitter functionality be and what do we want to flip and twiddle for that functionality, then we will figure out if it is possible or if we need to employ a co-pilot with a separate radio and blame him when the plane crashes!!!

[Jeff D]

I think your post is an excellent idea and much thinking and ideas will come from it. I will be faced with some of these decisions also but have yet to engage the brain on them. Only comment at this time is what came to mind as I was reading it.

Priority one is fly the plane. When the poop hits the fan, natural hand placement and primary flight controls should always be in the fingers. Which brings me to my point. Is this a glider or a power plane? For me it is a glider, always a glider, and should be flown as a glider. The motor is just another thermal. So for me the left stick is a primary glider control and I see it as spoilers (read landing control) vs a throttle.

Just an initial thought (perhaps philosophy) but for me a critical one for moving on your secondary controls.

​​​​​​

[Tom]

On my ASW-20 The motor “arming” switch is the aero tow release switch..back top left....switch “A”.....so whilst the release is “closed” ie: towing the motor will not function......once I release it allows the throttle to function......my throttle is the left slider.

[gunny11]

"1) All my other Gliders are set up to have flaps mixed with spoilers and all on the spoiler stick. Will that be the same for this glider?"

im not trying to open up a can of worms here,

but...... NO! I'll explain.

I am not a fan at all of mixing the flaps and spoilers together on a scale ship! They are never mixed like this on the full scale. But anyway, flaps create lift and or drag while the function of the spoilers increase your descent rate. When your Full blown "dirty" flaps and spoilers out, and your slow and short and you clean it up your going to splat onto the field. I've seen this happen. Bill L and I had this discussion at the Lancaster event. We and Jeff D. Flew full scale and the motto is "set it (the flaps) and forget it". Once your on final and your flaps are set, That's it, don't touch them anymore, leave them alone! Use the spoilers to control your decent rate/glide path. Even with this control I see pilots panicking. I can see some pilots churning butter with the left throttle stick.... In, out, in out and I watch the glider porpoise up and down the whole way in from final. The throttle stick is proportional so why not use it that way. Be smooth make small adjustments, add or remove them as required.
One more thing. While on tow if you thing you are going to over take the tow plane you can just crack out the spoilers to keep the towline taught.

my $ 2.00

[gunny11]

I agree with Jeff, it's a glider so I agree with Tom, use a slider for motor control.

[Steve P]

On my ASW-20 The motor “arming” switch is the aero tow release switch..back top left....switch “A”.....so whilst the release is “closed” ie: towing the motor will not function......once I release it allows the throttle to function......my throttle is the left slider.

Tom is spot on. That's how I've done motor gliders in the past. Motor on the left slider, the left stick functions as always in sailplane mode (as Jeff pointed out).

[lenb]

I like that setup Tom mentions. Good way to go.

[stevekremer]

Agree with Toms set up. If spoilers on throttle stick, then where do you put flaps if not mixed with spoilers?

Steve K

[lenb]

Flaps are on the right slider even if they are mixed with spoiler. You have the option of flaps, spoiler flaps and adjustable camber any time.

[Tom]

Agree with Toms set up. If spoilers on throttle stick, then where do you put flaps if not mixed with spoilers?

Steve K

Mine are on the right hand slider......

[gunny11]

And me, personally, (like most of the jet guys) I use the long 3 position toggle switch above the elevator for flaps. All the way up is no flaps middle position is thermaling flaps and all the way down is full down landing flaps.

[Tom]

And me, personally, (like most of the jet guys) I use the long 3 position toggle switch above the elevator for flaps. All the way up is no flaps middle position is thermaling flaps and all the way down is full down landing flaps.

The only thing I don’t like about that switch is it’s awkward to get at whilst flying! Maybe if someone wants 3 position flaps is to put it on the shorter 3 position switch at the top front right switch which on my DX18 is 3 position.

[Sinkhappens86]

That is what I use for flaps on my tow planes. Flaps are on the left slider on sailplanes.

[Jeff D]

I set up my DX-18 for the ASW20 with front left switch (Switch B - above release switch) as primary flight mode - Take off, cruise and landing (cruise modes are on switch G - above the gear). In landing mode I drop about 12-15 degrees flap (inboard only). This brings in most of your stall speed reduction and begins adding drag. From there I use the 3 position switch (switch D) above the left stick for incrementing additional flap. Full up is the 12-15 degrees I mentioned before (nothing added). Mid position is about 30 degrees and down is around 45 degrees. The spoilers are on the left stick.

So my landing checklist is entering the pattern - gear down, switch to landing mode. Now its configured for lower stall and have added some additional drag. Ideally, crack the spoilers to establish descent and start flying your pattern. If it looks high I can add one notch of flap (30 degrees). Usually all this takes place by base leg. Minor adjustments are handled by spoiler changes and adjusting pattern position. By time of turn to final any final flap adjustments should be done rest is done with spoilers.

There have been times I have called for full flap on final when things don't go right but also I have reduced flap as well if I'm too low and spoilers are already in. Here is where the "landing mode" setting is important. I can take off all the incremental flap additions (full or half) and I am back to a lower drag setting but still with a lower stall speed. It is not like dumping everything to 0 which as Gunny pointed out could get you into a stall condition.

One other think to point out. All these adjustments are done with the left hand. The primary flight hand (right) never leaves the stick under any circumstances. Once configured for landing, flap changes are just one finger on the left hand straight above the stick.

It did take some time for me to get comfortable with the setup but some of that was just getting used to the complexity of the systems (read: gear, flaps, spoilers). That's one of the reasons I liked the ASW20. It brought the big ships systems into a more familiar size.

That's the way I'm currently working the systems. I still watch how the mixed flap / spoiler systems are used on the big ships and wonder about advantages / disadvantages. For the moment I have gotten comfortable with the above approach and I don't think I have had any serious problems with it. It has given me a good degree of control.

[Ed DeRossi]

My ASH 31 is ready to fly and this is how I set it up. It is set up for aerotow or electric power.
Switch A is tow release and also motor arming. I also added a 5.0 second delay so when I release from tow, the motor can't start immediately although I don't believe that it is a full 5 seconds. 5.0 is the max that the radio allows.
Switch B is thermal at the 0 position, cruise at 1 position and speed at the2 position.
Left slider is for throttle.
Switch C and D do nothing.
Switch E is to mix rudder with aileron if I feel lazy.
Switch F and G do nothing.
Switch H is retract.
Right slider is for flaps in all flight modes except speed.
Left stick is rudder and spoilers.

[Mosquito]

And your radio is????

[Ed DeRossi]

Spektrum DX-20

[Mosquito]

Nice! Thanks!