Rhonsperber Tail Colors

[Joespeeder]

Hey Guys,

I ran out of time in the flying season to get my Storch maidened so I pulled my APModels 3.8m Rhonsperber out of its box and built it to have it ready for the Storch.

I want to do the rudder as shown in this photo but don’t understand the colors. Are they Red, white, and blue or red, white, and black?

What do those colors represent? I thought this scheme was German but that color banding isn’t something I recognize.

I’ll post pics of the build later. It’s a very cool project.

Joe

http://www.planeteplaneur.com/publis...erber1_enl.jpg

[Joespeeder]

Ohhh.... maybe Czech banding ????

[ARUP]

Probably black (top band), white and red to match the colors of the German flag of the times. Their flag went through some changes over time.

[Joespeeder]

Hmmm.... you may be correct. After reading your post I went looking for German flags and found this page that has the Black, White and Red you mentioned.

http://www.loeser.us/flags/german2.html

I will have to look at any black and white photos to confirm the colors and if they make more sense than the Red, White, and Blue shown in the drawing that comes with the plastic model.

While it it would be historically correct to put the red band and swastika on the tail, I already have that on my Minimoa and prefer to stay historically correct but with variations.

More fun for me to have variations that are correct yet different.

Thanks.

Joe

[ARUP]

Determining true colors from old orthochromatic film photos has been a point of contention since way back when! Yellows look black and other strange effects occur. Researching this stuff is interesting and oftentimes reveals hidden 'pearls'! Building a 1/4 scale version, I found an unusual DH-5 airplane of WWI in that it has a top wing cut out and the gravity tank on the upper wing is not in the standard position of just outside the wing panel join line but, rather, inside of it. The Datafiles author (where photo located) make no mention of this so I think I've discovered a field modification hitherto unrealized by historians!

[Joespeeder]

How right you are !! I went looking for the #36 in black and white. It really makes sense it’s the black and red color bands in those pics.

Just to confuse things I found a photo I’d never seen before of a Rhonsperber with the Olympic Rings in the nose. Crap.... I like the rings but the script on the rear of the fuse says Kommodant. Plus it looks like there is something written above the Olympic Rings. I can’t make out that part.

http://www.samolotypolskie.pl/samoloty/831/126/DFS-Rhoensperber2

So so it looks like I’m back to 36 with Black, White, and Red bands.

Thanks for the help. The color drawing just didn’t make sense.

Joe

[ARUP]

When a production run of sailplanes was made the sailplanes were assigned or given certain names thus 'Kommandant' in that picture in the link. I am not sure but I think the script above the rings is 'Rhonsperber'. Look for the same sailplane elsewhere and the script might become more legible. There might even be pics of the same sailplane during different phases of its 'life' where it might have different graphics.

[Joespeeder]

Thanks ARUP,

You've sent me on "an Adventure" to quote BillBo Baggins.... I have since found many sailplanes including a Rhonspeber in the German Glider Museum with the bands on the tail. They are indeed Black, White, and Red. So that part is answered.

As far as the Olympic Rhonsperber I have been digging to find other shots of that airframe. I did find a very very nice rc model of that exact airframe. However, the base color on the front was done in Blue. From the one photo I have(linked above) I'm tending to think it was Red in real life. The tone in the photo of the nose is very similar to the lower band on the rudder. But he may have much better info than my grainy photo. I'm still digging.

I also belong to a German RC Forum just so I can research stuff like this. I have spent a lot of time looking at D9 and Storch stuff over there. But it's been a while and I forgot to look for Rhonspeber stuff there.

I posted a thread over there and they are trying to figure out the area around the rings. I've tried searching under lots of possible combinations that might show the airframe. I will post what I find here.

In looking at the tail of the Kommadant I first thought it was 37.... and the other RC version used 37, but that doesn't really look like the bottom of a 7. It just looks like the wrong curve.

Hopefully, you're correct and I can find other shots of the Olympic Rhonsperber to confirm the scheme.


It took me a long time to figure out my Me-163. Between repaints and airframes being reassembled with wings from the wrong airframes researching things was a mess. This should be easier. I hope.

Joe


Here's my thead in the German forum. I have to run everything through Google Translate to read it and write in that forum. So it make thinks a little tough to work with but they are very kind and helping me.

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/662793-Rhonsperber-Help?p=4454398&posted=1#post4454398

I like the idea of it saying Rhonsperber above the rings. I hope it could be true !! I have a while to figure this all out as I'm very close to putting the model back on the wall ready to be finalized in the spring. It's about 1-2 days from maiden.

[Joespeeder]

Ok,,,, I found this shot of Rhonsperber 37 that shows the curve of the 7 and the Kommandant on the fuse.

So the tail number is correct.

This shot was after the tail had be redone with the red band and swastika.

Bit by bit... step by step.... lol

The pic is to be viewed with 3D glasses but it shows what I need.

[ARUP]

I hope you post some pics of your model on here! That 3-D pic is pretty cool! Did you check out my 3-D stereo images on my 'Professor' build? You have to cross your eyes to make them work.

[ARUP]

www.oliver-theede-oldtimer.de is a pretty cool site! Thanks for the tip, Joe!

[Joespeeder]

Thanks ARUP,

I will check out your build. I thought I knew about most cool sites but every now and then something pops up that shocks me.

Somethings it happens when I get into sites hosted in foreign languages where search terms are never hit on when searching.

There are are many many cool Japanese sites and YouTube videos that are very hard to find in normal searches. I just start clicking links when that happens to see what they might have. There are some very cool rc videos out there we never see.

Finding that site was was just dumb luck.

I’ll post some pics soon. Maybe I’ll change the name of this thread slightly when I do.

I’ve enjoyed the build of the APModels Rhonsperber. I have their Mo 2a and their Kranich. The Kranich is still in the box.

I built the Mo 2a with a spinny thing up front and had mild success. But the drivetrain never worked as well as it should. Little did I know I’m only an hour away from Stephane and his events.

He he has opened up the whole sport of aerotow to me and I’m dragging other warbird guys in with me.

I converted the Mo 2a to tow last winter and flew it more on one days aerotow event then it had flown total in 5 years.

I even joined a secondary club and CD’d a test aerotow event this year. I joined officially 1 week prior to the event we put on. lol

Next year we plan to open it up to a 2 day event and invite everyone. I’ve CD’d warbird events for years but it was nice to have a test run to show new club members and warbird flyers how the more unstructured style of flying works. Our home field has a 400ft altitude limit due to a local airport we’ve worked with for years and we have trees. So it makes flying more formal and sailplanes are rare unless they’re small foamies. The new Field is wide open and a great sailplane venue. So it was a real eye opener for many of the warbird guys.

Those guys us hadn’t really seen real sailplanes fly and we were teaching them on Parkzone Ka8 towed behind a Timber or a Flex Cessna 170. Fun stuff.

I'll post photos soon.

Joe

[ARUP]

I'm glad you got to fly with Stephane and everybody! Stephane is very knowledgeable and a great guy! Stephane only learned to fly power planes a couple of years ago. He has always been a 'glider-gider'. My favorite aircraft are Golden Age Racers with Pioneer and WWI types next but I get the most fun flying sailplanes and with other sailplane pilots! They are the best!!! It's difficult to explain the fun to other RC fliers... they just need to experience it!

[Swiss1]

I found this thread Joe, by looking up Rhonsperber Olympische Ringe

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/336070-Rh%C3%B6nsperber-in-1-2-5-Ein-kleiner-Baubericht/page13?s=d46d9bdc3b597a8a9000f2cbd1e2c45e

Hope it's of some help!

Jeremy and Ben
SCCAAA TT TN

[Joespeeder]

Thanks !!

I poured through that thread. It's such a gorgeous model.

I have to think about how I'm going to do the tail. After talking to the guys in the rc-network forums I found out that the tail should be the three color bands on the right side of the rudder and the red band/swastika on the left side. I had always thought it was the same on both sides. I confirmed it with the Luftwaffe Archive site. My Mo 2a has the Red band/Swastika on both sides and that's correct for the year. So the Mo 2a will stay 100% correct and I may just do the Rhonspeber as the 3 color bands on both sides. At a warbird event I don't mind being 100% correct but at a aerotow those markings stand out more and seem out of place. I think I'd rather have a mix of markings. It does get confusing as many modelers make the same calculation for their own reasons so you see lots of things that are not correct. At least I now know how to do it correctly and I can choose what to apply.

Joe

[ARUP]

Yes, the link provided by Jeremy sure shows a beautiful model!

[Joespeeder]

Hey Guys,

I seem to be settling in on #36 with 3 tail bands on both sides. It's just pleasing when I look at it.

However, I found good info on the Rohonsperber labeled the Alpenspeber. I even found a build of one linked below. If you zoom in on the Alpensperber you can see the Olympic Rings and no sign of text. The final shots of the build on page 9 of the thread. The important part for me is that I have a left sided photo of the Alpenspeber with the 3 colored bands on the tail. So.... I can show both sides of the tail with the 3 red bands. That's enough for me to do #36 the same.

I know all of this is kinda in the weeds but someone might want this info later. I never knew the progression of the markings and from photos we can show oddities that don't fit the standard spec'd at that time.

I have an idea to test the theory of the Rhonsperber script over the rings on the Kommandant scheme.

Those are the 3 schemes I'm looking at, with #36 the favorite so far.




I also found a shot of Ernst Udet in a Rhonsperber with an open cockpit and no glass canopy behind him. That would be a cool mod to do but I'm not going to get into molding new parts at this point.

Joe